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Thoughts Using D&D 5e for Middle-earth Games

I’ve been playing D&D 5e since the weekend the beta first went live in May 2012. It’s my favorite version of D&D ever, and I’ve played them all (for the record, I did not care for 3e and 4e).

I’ve also run a few TOR games converted to 5e using the house rules from http://www.zerohitpoints.com/Middle-Earth-for-DnD-5/ to generate our characters.

Orc miniatures from Games Workshop

Orc miniatures from Games Workshop

Here is a blog post on my more recent game where I ran ‘Of Leaves & Stewed Hobbit’ — http://swshinn.com/game-design/combat-speed-part-1.

I did an analysis of combat in that game. In the combat were 31 combatants (including the six PCs). The battle took five rounds of combat and lasted a total of 50 minutes and left 22 dead and many others close to death. In my version of this set piece battle we had 6 PCs, 3 NPCs, 11 goblin archers, 8 goblin swordsmen, 2 Orc chiefs and 1 troll. Some of the players had never played D&D 5e before so some of that time were rules explanations.

I’m pointing this out since a big, complicated set-piece battle like this would have taken probably 90 minutes in a game like Savage Worlds, and probably over 2 hours in a game like Pathfinder.

Skill checks, wilderness travel, fatigue, combat — all of these 5e rules felt like a great fit for the Middle-earth setting.

My custom GM Screen using Brothers Hildebrandt Art

My custom GM Screen using Brothers Hildebrandt Art

D&D 5e is the most heavily playtested game in history. It flows fast, is well supported, and has quickly become the most played RPG on the planet. Moreover, there is a resurgence in RPG playing that is partly due to 5e’s popularity. The biggest demographic of players is the under-35 crowd, so WOTC is bringing new players into the hobby by droves.

All of which is to say I personally am AMAZINGLY excited that Cubicle 7 is bringing Middle-earth to D&D 5e! I will buy the books and play it a lot, evangelizing the game in conventions and on my blog. Other than probably house-ruling in some of the herb rules from MERP into the game, I imagine 5e + Cubicle 7 Middle-Earth products to be a near perfect combination for what I want out of a Lord of the Rings game.

Big Set Piece Battle from the First Time I Ran 'Of Leaves and Stewed Hobbit' in my Home Game

Big Set Piece Battle from the First Time I Ran ‘Of Leaves and Stewed Hobbit’ in my Home Game

Combat Speed Part 3: Mechanics that Slow RPG Combat

Over the past few months I’ve taken notes in several games I’ve run or played using different systems: D&D 5e, Classic Traveller, Savage Worlds, Call of Cthulhu, and Stormbringer RPG. I’ve also consulted notes I have from play in systems like Pathfinder. I’ve noticed that combat can take significantly longer depending on your rule system.

A recent Boot Hill game with old-school, fast combat

A recent Boot Hill game with old-school, fast combat

There are a variety of ways you can speed up combat that essentially makes the players efficient or makes them hurry up:

  • Have the players not talk amongst themselves to strategize
  • Have the players hold (or skip) their turn if they are not ready
  • Have a timer or countdown to force the players to act quickly
  • Have the players have a buddy to help them with math or rules questions
  • etc.

But just looking at normal games like most GMs run them, allowing players to take turns and actions as they normally do, it seems to me the far bigger factor in having fast (or slow) combat is one thing—

—The Rules

The last time I played in a Savage Worlds game, we had 9 players with 0 XP. We had around 45 total combatants. The combat took two hours (with two sixty minute rounds!!!) and we still only defeated half the enemy (the rest ran away since we ran out of time). And this is the game that is ‘Fast, Furious, and Fun’.

By contrast, a D&D 5e game I ran with 6 players at 3rd level had 31 total combatants took 50 minutes (with five ten minute rounds) with the PCs completely killing all enemy combatants.

To put it another way, Savage Worlds had 50% more player and combatants, but combat rounds took 600% longer while killing about the same number of enemies.

Regardless of how long the total combat runs, one big factor of enjoyment is ‘how long till I get to do something?’

10 minutes is about right. 30-45 minutes between actions is just way too long for my tastes.

Can you speed up a slower game? Sure. But the number one thing (I think) to speed up the game is choose a system that plays fast. Second best thing to speed up combat is to add some speed house rules on top of an otherwise slower game.

Which Rules Speed (or Slow) Combat?

Here’s my thoughts (based on qualitative analysis) on what makes the difference between slow combat or fast combats in RPG games.

Rules that Speed Combat

The fastest games had these two rules:

Fixed Initiative

There were many ways these games did fixed initiative that still resulted in fast combat rounds:

  • Stan’s D&D 5e house rule (character with highest Dex roll goes first, then Round Robin thereafter).
  • BRP — Character go in order of highest to lowest Dex score (no roll needed).
  • Classic Traveller — Traditional rule — characters have group turn order and essentially play in round-robin order.
  • Classic Traveller — Stan’s house rule — Characters go in order of Marching order based on minis (first mini in line goes first, etc.).

The key to speed is to not spend time recording everyone’s roll from scratch each combat, and to not change the combat order each round.

Non-Inflated Hit Points

All the fastest games used hit points. Almost all roleplayers have used hit points before; tracking is fast and intuitive. There is a logistics advantage in large set-piece combats to using a Savage Worlds style wound system, but this comes at the expense of speed.

The other element of hit points making for fast combat is that in the fastest games they weren’t inflated. Most characters and opponents had 10-20 hit points. D&D 4e, Pathfinder, and other games where you inflate hit points to 100 HP or more generally run much slower. This being said, D&D 5e got away from hit point inflation by what they call ‘bounded accuracy’ — basically making sure the HP progression is very slow, and increasing your damage output a bit so that orcs are still a threat at higher levels and you don’t have excessive HP grinds in battle at upper levels.

Its worth noting that BRP and Classic Traveller for the most part don’t every increase your hit points. Your skills improve, but not your HP.

Rules that Slow Combat

Here are rules which I see slowing down the flow of the game.

Variable Initiative

Having players recalculate initiative each round slows things down. For example, in Savage Worlds you deal and collect cards each round which taking time at the beginning and end of each round. Moreover, I’ve notice a few seconds lost here and there as the GM or players look around trying to see whose turn it is.

Soaking Damage / Unshaking

Savage Worlds has a cool mechanic that makes tracking wounds very simple — you use miniatures and have Extras be up/down/off-the-table. Wild Cards (boss creatures) have a soak and wound tracking mechanic just like player characters. It is amazingly elegant at enabling large set-piece battles. However, taking time to soak wounds (spend a benny, roll Vigor, fail, spend another benny, roll again,…) takes time. It also takes time to deal out shaken / wound tokens. Less of an issue in small combats, but in larger combat or with multiple Wild Cards you’ll start feeling the delay.

Variable Dice

A small thing maybe, but games with Polyhedral dice take longer than games like Traveller which uses all-d6’s. In games with variable dice types, it takes a few seconds to pick out what dice to use for damage. If a game uses Polyhedral dice, but at least standardizes the key dice rolls (d20 for all checks and attacks in D&D, d100 for all checks and attacks in BRP), it will be faster.

Savage Worlds by contrast potentially uses different dice for each check (if you have a d8 in Vigor but a d4 in Agility you’re selecting different dice as the GM calls for different checks).

Exploding Dice & Raises

I’m a big fan of the energy that exploding dice (also called ‘Acing’) which Savage Worlds uses. However, it does take time to tally up the rolls and do the extra math of division to calculate raises.

Extra Rolls

In Savage Worlds there are lots of extra dice rolls (running means another die roll, damage dice exploding means more dice rolled, a wild dice in addition to Trait die needs a separate roll to evaluate with a separate explosion). I like rolling dice, but with more die rolls comes more time spent.

Rules Debates / Complex rules

The more rules that are in a game, the more confusion and debate will result. Pathfinder is likely the biggest rules-lawyering-debate system I’ve played. Even Savage Worlds isn’t immune to rules discussions. The simpler the game, the fewer rules debates, the faster it plays.

Other Factors

There are some other techniques which I’ve considered which effect game play but lesser so combat time.

Theater of the Mind and Miniatures

Running abstract (or narrative) combat without minis is something I love. It takes time to draw maps. But once the map is on the table, I don’t find having minis and counting squares to be too much of a time sink. Pathfinder is a bit of an exception, with the math you have to do for diagonal movement. That being said, counting squares does take a little time. 13th Age solves for this to some extent with its Engaged/Near/Far mechanics that is akin to Fate zones which still allow minis but dumps the counting of squares.

Minion & Mob Rules

Some games have minion (1 hit and they’re out) and mob (pooled hit points) rules. I’ve found this help logistics so that the gamemaster has less bookkeeping, but they don’t actually make combat go faster or slower. Some ways that people track Hit Points, like adding a die counter next to a miniature to track hit points lost, can slow things down a tad.

Conclusion

I would like to see a more quantitative analysis done of combat speed between different popular rules systems so that people can understand what systems are truly fast or slow, and what can be done to speed up combat.

I would say that many modern games like Fate and Savage Worlds are not actually faster than many hit point based traditional systems. Slow combat speed is not necessarily a drawback — some would say a long Fate RPG combat is cool and desirable. It all depends on what you want in a game.

But if your players are stacking dice during combat due to 30 minutes or more elapsing between their turns, you might want to revisit your rules system. There are fast games that are still cinematic. Perhaps the best story-game is one where you breeze past combat and keep the narrative flowing!

Combat Speed Part 2: Stormbringer RPG Metrics

Theron Bretz's running Stormbringer RPG at NTRPGCon 2016

Theron Bretz’s running Stormbringer RPG at NTRPGCon 2016

 

 

 

As I mentioned in my last post, I recently played in Call of Cthulhu and Stormbringer games (both based on BRP mechanics). Combat speed was interesting.

Call of Cthulhu Game Combat Speed

I played in a Call of Cthulhu game (7th edition) which had 4 combats with 6 players, an average of 20 minute combats over two rounds with an average of 1-4 opponents.

Stormbringer Game Combat Speed

The Stormbringer game had 8 combats, running anywhere from 5 to 20 minutes each, with combat rounds taking anywhere from 3 minutes (if fighting only one creature) to 10 minutes (if fighting 6 creatures). We had five player characters. Here are the details on the combats (note that the last combat round was usually shorter since we’d finish before all player’s acted):

  • Combat 1
    Enemies: 5, Rounds: 3, Total Time: 20 minutes.
  • Combat 2
    Enemies: 8, Rounds: 2, Total Time: 21 minutes.
  • Combat 3
    Enemies: 6, Rounds: 2, Total Time: 13 minutes.
  • Combat 4
    Enemies: 4, Rounds: 2, Total Time: 6 minutes.
  • Combat 5
    Enemies: 1, Rounds: 2, Total Time: 5 minutes.
  • Combat 6
    Enemies: 1, Rounds: 4, Total Time: 11 minutes.
  • Combat 7
    Enemies: 1, Rounds: 1, Total Time: 2 minutes.
  • Combat 8
    Enemies: 1, Rounds: 2, Total Time: 3 minutes.

The total game ran from 6pm to around 9:30pm with a 15 minute break. We had 81 Minutes of combat out of 195 minutes of game time.

  • Percentage time in combat:
    42% of time was spent in combat, 58% was in roleplaying.
  • Average time to complete a combat encounter:
    10 Minutes
  • Average length of combat rounds, including partial rounds:
    5 minutes
  • Average length of full combat rounds:
    6 minutes

In my next article I’ll talk about conclusions about what speeds and slow RPG combat encounters.

Stormbringer & Cthulhu Roleplaying Awesomeness!

This last Friday I had the joy to play in Theron Bretz’s Stormbringer RPG game which he ran at NTRPGCon this year. I’m doing a series of posts analyzing combat speed (what speeds or slows down combat in RPGs) and this was a great game to play in and analyze. Before I get into combat speed analysis (which I’ll tackle in my next post), let’s take a look at a couple of incarnations of the Basic Role-Playing game system.

Basic Role-Playing (and it’s ancestor, Runequest)

Basic Roleplaying

Basic Roleplaying

The Basic Role-Playing game (BRP) system is a percentile-dice-based system used in many role-playing games designed by Chaosium (most notably, Call of Cthulhu). It’s ancestor was the 1978 game Runequest. In Britain in the 1980s, RuneQuest was recognized by the gaming world as one of the ‘Big Three’ games with the largest market share (the others being Dungeons & Dragons and Traveller).

At its core, it has a lot of D&D-style mechanics (abilities, damage, hit points, etc.), but with a percentile based skill system and some other elements layered in. The BRP Character Sheet from Chaosium gives you a quick feel for the stats at work in the system.

Basic Role-Playing eventually became the GURPs / Savage Worlds-style generic system based on Runequest, with Runequest (now in it’s 6th Edition) remaining the leading Fantasy incarnation of the venerable rules.

Other variants such as Chaosium’s Magic World allow you to incorporate interesting magic system to emulate Stormbringer’s setting (even though Chaosium has long lost the license from Moorcock).

If you’re looking for interesting or novel magic systems, the BRP family of products has many options, and is modularized to allow you to toggle on or off whatever magic subsystems you want for your setting.

Call of Cthulhu

I have looked over the Basic Role-Playing game system and its variants (Call of Cthulhu, Ringworld, Elfquest, etc.) over the years, but last month (when I played in a Cthulhu game) was the first time I’d ever played in one of these percentile-dice-based systems. It always struck me as overly crunchy (due to long skill lists and percentile notes all over the place). However, the Cthulhu game ran amazingly fast and I was very surprised at how enjoyable the system was to play!

Brandon Peterson's Cthulhu game

Brandon Peterson’s Cthulhu game — we filled in the stats as we tried to do things (our characters had amnesia!)

Stormbringer RPG

My experience a few weeks later in Theron’s Stormbringer game was much the same as in Call of Cthulhu: combat which was immersive, cinematic, and fast-moving.

The Stormbringer RPG game which Theron ran used the 1st edition rules first published by Chaosium back in 1981. The setting is based on the Elric of Melniboné books by Michael Moorcock. The game takes its name from Elric’s sword, Stormbringer.

Stormbringer Character Sheet using percentile-dice based skills

Stormbringer Character Sheet using percentile-dice based skills

This game was unbelievably fun. Part of it was that Theron was such a great GM. Part of it was the theater-of-the-mind style which Theron used: I always find theater-of-the-mind to be some much more immersive, especially with Fantasy games (sneaking past a 200-yard long sleeping dragon just can’t be replicated with minis!). Part of it was the evocative Melniboné setting which Theron described so well.

Some of it was the system itself.

Cover art really brought out the Moorcock vibe!

Cover art really brought out the Moorcock vibe!

The game is not particularly balanced (like the source material, our Melnibonéan sorcerer clearly out-powered a mundane rogue character I was playing). For a con game, I don’t mind being unbalanced (though I might care more in a longer term campaign). But what stood out was how fast-paced the game was, while still being evocative and cinematic.

Stormbringer 1st Edition Box Set really had the old-school feel

Stormbringer 1st Edition Box Set really had the old-school feel

Characters, even though they had a lot of experience (maybe equating to Level 7 in D&D, though BRPG doesn’t have levels per se), still only had 10 to maybe 13 hit points. Combat was gritty and death seemed never more than a couple of bad dice rolls away.

Old-school dungeon crawl but with the distinct feel of Melniboné

Old-school dungeon crawl but with the distinct feel of Melniboné

In some ways it was more satisfying that AD&D combat. Characters had a chance to roll in attempt to parry a blow If you scored a particularly good hit, you could take (or inflict) a ‘major wound’ which the GM would look up on a table. Between major wounds descriptions from tables, and Theron’s own flavorful descriptions of combat, the battles hit the zen-like sweet-spot of being both super-fast and super-descriptive.

All-in-all, this was one amazing game. Great players, great GM, and a system that flowed fast and really made you feel like you were in Melniboné!

Getting Into BRP

I really loved the Stormbringer and Cthulhu games and the simple-but-flavorful BRP system. I did a bit of research and found that BRP could be a nice potential fit for games that need a particularly exotic magic system to emulate non-Tolkien style Fantasy games. BRP Fantasy systems come in many flavors. Here are a few top choices and some notes I made based on reviews.

  • Runequest (6th Ed.) —  Chaosium’s long-lived product with five modular magic systems to choose from (including a Rune magic system). Based on some reviews, I might find this incarnation a bit too crunchy for my tastes.
  • MagicWorld — Another Chaosium version that incorporates many Stormbringer setting rules, but with the Moorcock IP stripped out.
  • OpenQuest — There is a Runequest SRD, and OpenQuest takes the SRD bits, streamlines it, and represents it in simpler form. Fewer skills for example. This would probably be my favorite one to start with. It is reviewed here. And as an even simpler first step, the free and small OpenQuest Basic might be just the place to start.

While I’d likely look elsewhere for generic, supers, or Sci Fi rpg systems, the magic flavors in the BRP products have enough appeal to warrant consideration if you’re looking at a non-traditional Fantasy campaign. In any case, I loved all my BRP experiences and I am gladly adding this system to my short-list of game systems to consider for GMing or playing at cons or in home games!

Combat Metrics

Aside from being cool systems to play, in my next article I’ll talk about how BRP systems play out with regard to combat speed.

Combat Speed Part 1: 5e Combat Metrics

Our climactic set-piece battle. Was proud to have Dr. Dennis Sustare (second from right, author of Bunnies & Burrows) play in my game!

Our climactic set-piece battle. Was proud to have Dr. Dennis Sustare (second from right, author of Bunnies & Burrows) play in my game!

I did some combat speed calculations in my D&D 5e Middle-Earth game at this year’s NTRPGCon game. In our big climactic battle we had 31 combatants (6 PCs, 3 NPCs, 11 goblin archers, 8 goblin swordsmen, 2 Orc chiefs and 1 troll).

Combat rounds were 10 minutes (< 1 minute per player with me managing three groups of bad guys in around 3-4 minutes).

Bad guys fought to the death. After 5 full combat rounds, 22 enemies lay dead and some PCs on the verge of death.

What’s interesting is 10 minute combat rounds (for around 6 players) is the same speed of combat for most old school games (Call of Cthulhu, Stormbringer, Classic Traveller) I’ve run or played in recent months. As opposed to 20-35 minute combat rounds for Pathfinder/3.5e and games like Savage Worlds.

5e really does run fast! Shorter battles with < 10 enemies run about 1-3 combat rounds, 20 minutes average, about like the other old games. And with smaller battles (1 or 2 enemies) it can go even faster!

In my next post I’ll talk about recent Stormbringer and Cthulhu games I’ve played, and how those experiences factor into my analysis of RPG combat speed.

 

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